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Shm Jay
Šalea
Joined: 14 Nov 2002
Location: 5.4.5.2
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 Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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I think we should write a sitcom about Eddy.
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WurdBendur
Gent
Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Location: Indiana, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:11 pm Post subject: A Show About Nothing |
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Reflections of fear cast shadows of nothing. |
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MrKrov
Mey
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Location: /ai/ < [a:]
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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The show about nothing for the guy who does nothing. Perfect fit.
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| Pthug wrote: | | Viktor77 wrote: | | I grew up my entire life surrounded by a Special Ed educator. |
i can imagine |
Catch me on YouTube. |
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bulbaquil
Gent
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: Not at all satisfactory |
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| Delthayre wrote: | | Unrelatedly: Why the bloody Hell does SyFy keep airing shows starring or about psychics? Then again, I could ask with equal exasperation why so many people continue to believe in psychics. |
For the same reason The History Channel seems to be under the impression that 2012 is in the past. |
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WurdBendur
Gent
Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Location: Indiana, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:28 pm Post subject: Re: Not at all satisfactory |
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| bulbaquil wrote: | | For the same reason The History Channel seems to be under the impression that 2012 is in the past. |
I stopped watching The History Channel as soon as it became The Ice Road Truckers and Other Exciting Jobs of the Present Channel.
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Reflections of fear cast shadows of nothing. |
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Viktor77
Šalea
Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Rib Shack, Saginaw
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:24 pm Post subject: Re: Not at all satisfactory |
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| bulbaquil wrote: | | Delthayre wrote: | | Unrelatedly: Why the bloody Hell does SyFy keep airing shows starring or about psychics? Then again, I could ask with equal exasperation why so many people continue to believe in psychics. |
For the same reason The History Channel seems to be under the impression that 2012 is in the past. |
And the same reason HGTV became the HBSHC aka How to Buy and Sell A House Channel.
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Pthug
Šalea
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Location: the right hand of the father
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: Not at all satisfactory |
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| Viktor77 wrote: | | And the same reason HGTV became the HBSHC aka How to Buy and Sell A House Channel. |
i asked on irc and apparently HGTV is "Home & Garden Television". Isn't the whole point of homeownership, as that dream has been sold to us, to ensure that your property has a high value [while at the same time reflecting your truely unique sense of self. unless your sense of self involves leaving distressed ex-industrial equipment everywhere and leaving the garden to overgrow and become a den of vipers, but let that pass]? Of course, you do not have to *intend* to sell it [though of course what with the property ladder being what it is, why not? up the ziggurat, lickety split] but the *principle* is the same. To keep the value of your investment high, you have to make it as valuable to a buyer as possible. It is just a happy coincidence you share the same values. |
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WurdBendur
Gent
Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Location: Indiana, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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I think the fact that Viktor even cares about HGTV says a lot more about him than does his understanding of homeownership.
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TheGoatMan
Tšur
Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Location: On the other side of the horizon
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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The thing that disgusts me is the way that real estate has become an investment product; last time I checked, you were supposed to want to buy a house and live in it, not buy a bunch because you think the value is going to increase. Isn't that basically the same as trading on futures?
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Pthug
Šalea
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Location: the right hand of the father
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| TheGoatMan wrote: | | last time I checked, you were supposed to want to buy a house and live in it, not buy a bunch because you think the value is going to increase. Isn't that basically the same as trading on futures? |
what, and THROW MONEY AWAY by paying RENT? |
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Viktor77
Šalea
Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Rib Shack, Saginaw
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:54 pm Post subject: Re: Not at all satisfactory |
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| Pthug wrote: | | Viktor77 wrote: | | And the same reason HGTV became the HBSHC aka How to Buy and Sell A House Channel. |
i asked on irc and apparently HGTV is "Home & Garden Television". Isn't the whole point of homeownership, as that dream has been sold to us, to ensure that your property has a high value [while at the same time reflecting your truely unique sense of self. unless your sense of self involves leaving distressed ex-industrial equipment everywhere and leaving the garden to overgrow and become a den of vipers, but let that pass]? Of course, you do not have to *intend* to sell it [though of course what with the property ladder being what it is, why not? up the ziggurat, lickety split] but the *principle* is the same. To keep the value of your investment high, you have to make it as valuable to a buyer as possible. It is just a happy coincidence you share the same values. |
Whateva'. The channel used to focus on interior design and now it's all House Hunters and firsttime buyers and selling your house. Housewives don't want to watch how to sell their house, they want to watch fabulous room makeovers.
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Pthug
Šalea
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Location: the right hand of the father
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:57 pm Post subject: Re: Not at all satisfactory |
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| Viktor77 wrote: | | Whateva'. The channel used to focus on interior design and now it's all House Hunters and firsttime buyers and selling your house. Housewives don't want to watch how to sell their house, they want to watch fabulous room makeovers. |
yeah sure. what do those ditzy broads know about things like buying property. that's a man's sport. you just keep yourself beautiful and pour me another drink.
bless her.
*inserts cigar into anus and farts* |
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WurdBendur
Gent
Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Location: Indiana, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:59 pm Post subject: Re: Not at all satisfactory |
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| Viktor77 wrote: | | Whateva'. The channel used to focus on interior design and now it's all House Hunters and firsttime buyers and selling your house. |
What part of that doesn't fit the theme of Home and Garden?
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Viktor77
Šalea
Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Rib Shack, Saginaw
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:02 pm Post subject: Re: Not at all satisfactory |
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| WurdBendur wrote: | | Viktor77 wrote: | | Whateva'. The channel used to focus on interior design and now it's all House Hunters and firsttime buyers and selling your house. |
What part of that doesn't fit the theme of Home and Garden? |
It does fit the description, but the channel was built around interior design. It wasn't until later that all this homebuying stuff started being aired. It's like the History Channel, it used to be historical documentaries and such and now it's lost its appeal in favour of cheap-to-produce shows.
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Pthug
Šalea
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Location: the right hand of the father
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:41 pm Post subject: Re: Not at all satisfactory |
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| Viktor77 wrote: | | It does fit the description, but the channel was built around interior design. It wasn't until later that all this homebuying stuff started being aired. It's like the History Channel, it used to be historical documentaries and such and now it's lost its appeal in favour of cheap-to-produce shows. |
not quite. the purpose of those shows is to let you know what you should be liking in a *slightly more subtle* way than having whatever beautiful person waffle on about how stylish pink drapes or whatever are. they do that too, though, but the framing narrative hides it better.
then there are the ones where the people go "lol we want to sell our house and so naturally we thought to invite a tv crew!!" and the whole cashing-in-on-an-investment thing is just the pretext for having a good old fashioned televised redecoration. I think http://www.hgtv.com/get-it-sold/show/index.html is an example of this, from the summary.
then the first-time buyer shows are basically, i guess, for the benefit of poor people who want to break into the giddy petty-bourgeois world or just fantasise for a while, so you should take so many notes. in this safe environment, you can learn the boundaries of what is acceptable in eg. a shit new house and begin to dabble in "expressing yourself". i can't find any pure examples of this, but from the sound of it http://www.hgtv.com/house-hunters/show/index.html seems to be very heavily based around the idea of people trying to discover How To Express Themselves Through Investments, like there's this one about a couple "vow[ing] to not make the same real estate mistakes in St. Louis as they did in Chicago" (what a reversal!) and oh, here's one about "Brothers Alan and Greg decide to leave the nest to find a home in Houston's Montrose District".
i really cannot see how any appeal it once had could have been lost, especially since there are still plenty of shows that do not make *direct* appeals to investment sense. Take the delightful "Sarah" http://www.hgtv.com/sarahs-house/show/index.html who takes the really daring step of "buying the worst house in a good neighborhood" with the aim of "empower[ing] you with the knowledge you need to tackle your own whole-house redesign". Full of housy goodness.
Let us compare this to the History channel. It has a more awkward interface but that can't be helped: http://www.history.com/schedule
Now, there is a real lack of anything *really* very historyish in this. Tuna is not history, nor are guns necessarily -- though there is an episode in that series about the Wild West and one about guns during the revolutionary war so that probably half counts. Mummies are good, mummies are definitely history, but it is ruined by being followed by "Pawn Stars". This appears to be about the life and times of a pawnshop in Nevada. Diverting, but not really historical. After that there is stuff about technology. It does not appear to be quite as good as The Secret Life of Machines or those old timey movies where they basically just filmed industrial processes and had some well-spoken guy with an Oxford accent narrate it, but a worse criticism is that *it is not History*. Then a show about gangsters -- another half point, maybe a full one depending on how history it is.
At the bottom is a show about the Templars. Let's not think about the Templars.
If we go back a day, it seems rather more heavily tech-focussed with these "Modern Marvels" shows except for some reason it has *planetary science* shit -- "The Universe: 7 Wonders of the Solar System", "How The Earth Was Made: Ring of Fire".
The day before that seems to be all astronomy, except oh here are mummies again [or *snorts* for the first time since we are going backwards in time. like history. remember history?] and the pawnshop thing. The day is not lost because it has "Sex in the Ancient World: Pompeii" which is mos. def. history.
If we go back another day, and I shan't go any further, we actually hit a day quite rich in history. The mummy shows, again, and pompeii and non-history stuff BUT also "The Lost Pyramid" and "Strange Egypt". I refuse to call "Ancient Aliens: Chariots, Gods & Beyond" history.
As you see, it is not really comparing like to like. |
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Jar Jar Binks
Tšur
Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Location: OTTER Posts:OTTER
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:01 am Post subject: Re: Not at all satisfactory |
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| Viktor77 wrote: | | interior design |
| Viktor77 wrote: | | makeovers |
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Amuere
Mey
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:18 am Post subject: Re: Not at all satisfactory |
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| Pthug wrote: | | Viktor77 wrote: | | It does fit the description, but the channel was built around interior design. It wasn't until later that all this homebuying stuff started being aired. It's like the History Channel, it used to be historical documentaries and such and now it's lost its appeal in favour of cheap-to-produce shows. |
not quite. the purpose of those shows is to let you know what you should be liking in a *slightly more subtle* way than having whatever beautiful person waffle on about how stylish pink drapes or whatever are. they do that too, though, but the framing narrative hides it better.
then there are the ones where the people go "lol we want to sell our house and so naturally we thought to invite a tv crew!!" and the whole cashing-in-on-an-investment thing is just the pretext for having a good old fashioned televised redecoration. I think http://www.hgtv.com/get-it-sold/show/index.html is an example of this, from the summary.
then the first-time buyer shows are basically, i guess, for the benefit of poor people who want to break into the giddy petty-bourgeois world or just fantasise for a while, so you should take so many notes. in this safe environment, you can learn the boundaries of what is acceptable in eg. a shit new house and begin to dabble in "expressing yourself". i can't find any pure examples of this, but from the sound of it http://www.hgtv.com/house-hunters/show/index.html seems to be very heavily based around the idea of people trying to discover How To Express Themselves Through Investments, like there's this one about a couple "vow[ing] to not make the same real estate mistakes in St. Louis as they did in Chicago" (what a reversal!) and oh, here's one about "Brothers Alan and Greg decide to leave the nest to find a home in Houston's Montrose District".
i really cannot see how any appeal it once had could have been lost, especially since there are still plenty of shows that do not make *direct* appeals to investment sense. Take the delightful "Sarah" http://www.hgtv.com/sarahs-house/show/index.html who takes the really daring step of "buying the worst house in a good neighborhood" with the aim of "empower[ing] you with the knowledge you need to tackle your own whole-house redesign". Full of housy goodness.
Let us compare this to the History channel. It has a more awkward interface but that can't be helped: http://www.history.com/schedule
Now, there is a real lack of anything *really* very historyish in this. Tuna is not history, nor are guns necessarily -- though there is an episode in that series about the Wild West and one about guns during the revolutionary war so that probably half counts. Mummies are good, mummies are definitely history, but it is ruined by being followed by "Pawn Stars". This appears to be about the life and times of a pawnshop in Nevada. Diverting, but not really historical. After that there is stuff about technology. It does not appear to be quite as good as The Secret Life of Machines or those old timey movies where they basically just filmed industrial processes and had some well-spoken guy with an Oxford accent narrate it, but a worse criticism is that *it is not History*. Then a show about gangsters -- another half point, maybe a full one depending on how history it is.
At the bottom is a show about the Templars. Let's not think about the Templars.
If we go back a day, it seems rather more heavily tech-focussed with these "Modern Marvels" shows except for some reason it has *planetary science* shit -- "The Universe: 7 Wonders of the Solar System", "How The Earth Was Made: Ring of Fire".
The day before that seems to be all astronomy, except oh here are mummies again [or *snorts* for the first time since we are going backwards in time. like history. remember history?] and the pawnshop thing. The day is not lost because it has "Sex in the Ancient World: Pompeii" which is mos. def. history.
If we go back another day, and I shan't go any further, we actually hit a day quite rich in history. The mummy shows, again, and pompeii and non-history stuff BUT also "The Lost Pyramid" and "Strange Egypt". I refuse to call "Ancient Aliens: Chariots, Gods & Beyond" history.
As you see, it is not really comparing like to like. |
Meh, I personally still love the History Channel, even some of the new shows that aren't history related. Modern Marvels is bored as hell most of the time, I don't think watching the history of say....fingernail polish, is particularly interesting. I have to watch The Universe though, that's my show!!!!
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Torco
Šalea
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Location: Santiago de Chile
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:27 am Post subject: Re: Not at all satisfactory |
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| WurdBendur wrote: | | bulbaquil wrote: | | For the same reason The History Channel seems to be under the impression that 2012 is in the past. |
I stopped watching The History Channel as soon as it became The Ice Road Truckers and Other Exciting Jobs of the Present Channel. |
It's a good channel, half the time; the other half, it's truckers, 2012, the bible, nostradamus, bigfoot, ufos, and other assorted crap. |
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WurdBendur
Gent
Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Location: Indiana, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:41 am Post subject: |
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Phag, I would like to make some points about those shows since I have seen many of them. Pawn Stars typically involves people selling items that they believe to be old and valuable, discussions on their history and how to determine if they are authentic. So it at least should get half a point. Some of the technology shows also briefly mention the history of certain technologies, about as thoroughly as you'd expect from a show that has very little to do with history, anyway.
On the other hand, Gangland really has nothing to do with history. It is about prison gangs and such, all thoroughly modern.
Also lots of those shows that are apparently about history pretty much sound like bad high school essays put to video. They commonly present untenable theses, make terrible arguments, present questions as if they are answers, and then just end with the expectation that you agreed with whatever bullshit, history-rearranging conclusion the writer wanted you to eat off their ass like the poor armchair historian sucker you (not you) are.
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Delith nerektos keto doth mül so mili.
Reflections of fear cast shadows of nothing. |
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Pthug
Šalea
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Location: the right hand of the father
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:21 am Post subject: |
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| WurdBendur wrote: | | Pawn Stars typically involves people selling items that they believe to be old and valuable, discussions on their history and how to determine if they are authentic. So it at least should get half a point. |
I cheerfully agree. It sounded quite interesting by History channel standards.
| WurdBendur wrote: | | On the other hand, Gangland really has nothing to do with history. It is about prison gangs and such, all thoroughly modern. |
Disappointing. What we gain on the swings, we lose on the roundabouts. The internal contradictions of capitalism rear their hydral heads again.
| WurdBendur wrote: | | Also lots of those shows that are apparently about history pretty much sound like bad high school essays put to video. They commonly present untenable theses, make terrible arguments, present questions as if they are answers, and then just end with the expectation that you agreed with whatever bullshit, history-rearranging conclusion the writer wanted you to eat off their ass like the poor armchair historian sucker you (not you) are. |
Well sure, but be reasonable. The home shows aren't talking about interior decoration throughout the world and history either; they are not taking their materials back to the source of their manufacturers or designers and aren't terribly interested in the economic or ecological effects of the choices people make. the narrative they tell is about making people feel happy and free-within-bourgeois-tastes about their homes. It is, however, at least *about* homes. |
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WurdBendur
Gent
Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Location: Indiana, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:57 am Post subject: |
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| Pthug wrote: | | Well sure, but be reasonable. The home shows aren't talking about interior decoration throughout the world and history either; they are not taking their materials back to the source of their manufacturers or designers and aren't terribly interested in the economic or ecological effects of the choices people make. the narrative they tell is about making people feel happy and free-within-bourgeois-tastes about their homes. It is, however, at least *about* homes. |
It really isn't the same. I don't expect a show about interior design to cover all those things, but I at least expect a show about history not to try to rewrite well established history in order to support a completely ridiculous claim. Or even a fairly reasonable claim, for that matter, unless there is really good reason to overturn documented history.
I imagine writing shows for the History Channel goes something like this.
- Ask a question, such as "Who were the Hyksos?"
- Offer exactly one possibility (drawn from a hat): "Maybe they were Hebrew."
- Thoroughly examine that single possibility. For example, demonstrate that the Hyksos could have been Hebrews by showing a cave where Hebrew slaves had been kept and identifying some Hebrew writing within (presumably we only knew they were ever in the cave because of the writing).
- End by repeating the original question. Pretend you haven't already told the audience what you want them to think the answer is. Tack on a "We may never know" for extra credit.
I thought that was a really interesting episode, until my brother (who studies archaeology) reminded me that they had moved several well established historical events by hundreds of years to make all their guesses line up. They even had a cool graphic to show how they were turning time around like wheels, and I guess they were more proud of the graphic than they were ashamed of their blind guessing and leading questions.
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Pthug
Šalea
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Location: the right hand of the father
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:30 am Post subject: |
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| WurdBendur wrote: | | It really isn't the same. I don't expect a show about interior design to cover all those things, but I at least expect a show about history not to try to rewrite well established history in order to support a completely ridiculous claim. Or even a fairly reasonable claim, for that matter, unless there is really good reason to overturn documented history. |
Well see, here's the thing. In Britain we have a channel called BBC Four. It is pretty fucking classy and one of the greatest, but newest, jewels of the Corporation. I think it was launched around the time everything went digital for the first time. I know you probably won't be able to watch them unless you have some secret wire into Britain, but I think they should be visible at http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/tv/bbc_four . Now, because it is classy, I expect the history shows on it to be classy and they more or less are, especially when it comes to arty-farty stuff. Also this is where interior design comes into it.
There is this one up now about, basically, Baroque interior design:
| Quote: | Spectacular three-part series, exploring the Baroque tradition in many of its key locations. Starting in Italy and following the spread of the wildfire across Europe and beyond, art critic Waldemar Januszczak takes a tour of the best examples of Baroque to be found, and tells the best stories behind those works.
Episode Three brings the Baroque home with an exploration of the English Baroque tradition that finds its climax through a tour of London's Hawksmoor churches, and Christopher Wren's iconic St Paul's Cathedral. (R) |
It's presented by a kinda ugly guy which I don't think would fly on the My Fierce New House Show, but if it's anything like the others, he is going to be smart and know his stuff or at the very least be able to give a impression that he is and does. There was a three-part series about modern artists a while back, for example, and it was good even if I still don't ""get"" why people get such hard-ons for matisse i mean like the guy was CRYING over the stained glass window he did in that chapel when he was old and that was boring jesus christ just a bunch of yellow and blue
I would not expect this on the History Channel and you're a bloody fool to think otherwise. In both cases the bar is set quite low, but at least the Houses are Lovely channel has stuck with its original """core competency""".
| WurdBendur wrote: | | End by repeating the original question. Pretend you haven't already told the audience what you want them to think the answer is. Tack on a "We may never know" for extra credit. |
Which seems to be the new core of the channel. Mysteries and machines are history only in a very rarefied philosophical sense. |
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WurdBendur
Gent
Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Location: Indiana, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:44 am Post subject: |
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Good points there. I see what you're saying, now.
| Pthug wrote: | | Which seems to be the new core of the channel. Mysteries and machines are history only in a very rarefied philosophical sense. |
I guess the idea is something like "The future will come and this will be the past. That means we're in history now, and everything conceivable counts as history, so let's document it as it happens. Also that will save us having to do any work in fifty years when we can just reuse things that by then will actually be history."
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Pthug
Šalea
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Location: the right hand of the father
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| WurdBendur wrote: | Good points there. I see what you're saying, now.
| Pseudopthug wrote: | | Which seems to be the new core of the channel. Mysteries and machines are history only in a very rarefied philosophical sense. |
I guess the idea is something like "The future will come and this will be the past. That means we're in history now, and everything conceivable counts as history, so let's document it as it happens. Also that will save us having to do any work in fifty years when we can just reuse things that by then will actually be history." |
I changed my mind! WurdBendur you are wrong and Pseudopthug you are wrong but adorable. I think the History channel is basically about *science*. That's science in a germanic sort of Wissenschaft way, so history and archaeology and so on are included but it also includes engineering. They're just not very good at it. |
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Io
Šalea
Joined: 19 Dec 2004
Location: a.s.l. p.l.s.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:40 am Post subject: |
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| Pthug wrote: | | up the ziggurat, lickety split |
Oh oh, this is interesting, I've never heard the word ziggurat used in an expression, in fact it's not often you hear that word, is this something you made up? Translation please.
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<King> Ivo, you phrase things in the most comedic manner
| Jal wrote: | | jme wrote: | | Thats just rude and unneeded. |
That sums up Io, basically. Yet, we all love him. |
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