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Daistallia Mey


Joined: 28 May 2008 Location: Iowa
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su_liam Për

Joined: 05 Dec 2007
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:40 am Post subject: |
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The low axial tilt also means that you will have a wider temperature spread between equator and poles.
Obliquity involves a straight trade-off between spatial and temporal variation. More tilt -> (more pronounced seasons; less difference in average temperature by latitude). Less tilt -> (Less seasonal variation; greater difference in average temperature by latitude).
High eccentricity would lead to more temporal variation without the more equal distribution of heat across the surface.
A large hydrospheric fraction, which you have, will moderate temperature variations both in time and in space.
Thinking about the rotation rate. A fast rotation will lead to much more pronounced east-west circulation and weaker latitudinal heat transfer(more variation in temperature with latitude)(This much I know for sure.) I don't know any numbers on this as I haven't been able to find any modelling data on circulation vs. rotation rate. I believe that the three-cell circulation will still hold at a 60 hour day, though it may be less pronounced(not totally certain about this). Number of cells will probably be a function both of the strength of the Coriolis effect and the depth of the atmosphere(atmospheric depth would be proportional to surface pressure divided by gravity).
Another effect of slow rotation will be increased diurnal variation. Everywhere, though less pronounced nearer the poles and greater nearer the equator.
Higher greenhouse effect will tend to even out temperature variations on all scales, both spatially and temporally. For a given atmospheric composition, the greenhouse multiplier should be proportional to the mass of atmospheric gases over a unit of surface area, though there might be an exponent applied to that. So greenhouse effect would be roughly surface pressure divided by gravity multiplied by some factor dependent on composition( P/g*k(composition) ). The average surface temperature would be related to the blackbody temperature, thus: Tsurface = (1 - Albedo)*Tblackbody*P/g*k(composition). Blackbody temperature would be related to the planet's orbital distance(R, in a.u.'s), and the star's luminosity(L, in Solar luminosities), thus: Tblackbody = (L / R)^0.25. Figuring out how to work that out as it varies along an eccentric orbit is left as an exercise for the poor reader .
Thus, as Buffy said, endeth the lesson. Hopefully this was of use... |
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Daistallia Mey


Joined: 28 May 2008 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:58 am Post subject: |
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See below. _________________ http://www.generalunion.org/ - Proud and strong labor activist!
PoliCompass:
Economic Left/Right: -1.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.82
Conworlding Links: http://gauzstien.angelfire.com/links.html
Last edited by Daistallia on Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Daistallia Mey


Joined: 28 May 2008 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:12 am Post subject: |
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See below. _________________ http://www.generalunion.org/ - Proud and strong labor activist!
PoliCompass:
Economic Left/Right: -1.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.82
Conworlding Links: http://gauzstien.angelfire.com/links.html
Last edited by Daistallia on Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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su_liam Për

Joined: 05 Dec 2007
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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It looks like you have high pressure over land in summer. Those really should be lows.
The land heats up faster in summer than the water causing the air to rise. The heavier, cooler maritime air rushes in to fill the reduced pressure, "void."
You also seem to be showing the ITCZ as high pressure.
The STHZ appears to be properly high pressure, so it doesn't look like you can just relabel the pressures and treat red as low pressure. Also your polar regions should generally be high pressure. Aaaand, your winter hemispheres(south in summer, north in winter) seem way way too homogeneous. Continental regions should have pronounced highs in winter to go with the summer lows.
Other than that its a very nice map. Given the pressures as you have them here, your surface winds look proper, too. This style is very polished and professional-looking if you work out your pressures. |
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Daistallia Mey


Joined: 28 May 2008 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| su_liam wrote: | It looks like you have high pressure over land in summer. Those really should be lows.
The land heats up faster in summer than the water causing the air to rise. The heavier, cooler maritime air rushes in to fill the reduced pressure, "void."
You also seem to be showing the ITCZ as high pressure.
The STHZ appears to be properly high pressure, so it doesn't look like you can just relabel the pressures and treat red as low pressure. Also your polar regions should generally be high pressure. Aaaand, your winter hemispheres(south in summer, north in winter) seem way way too homogeneous. Continental regions should have pronounced highs in winter to go with the summer lows.
Other than that its a very nice map. Given the pressures as you have them here, your surface winds look proper, too. This style is very polished and professional-looking if you work out your pressures. |
Thanks. I thought there was something screwy.  _________________ http://www.generalunion.org/ - Proud and strong labor activist!
PoliCompass:
Economic Left/Right: -1.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.82
Conworlding Links: http://gauzstien.angelfire.com/links.html |
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su_liam Për

Joined: 05 Dec 2007
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Still a beautiful map for its purpose. Get those pressures ironed out and they'll hang it in a gallery. Behind a weatherman .
One last note, thus exhausting my intellect: the top and bottom lines look like they should be the polar fronts. If so, those should be lows. And if they aren't the PF... they should be.
My last couple terms in college were pretty intensive on climatology, hydrology and paleoclimatology, so most of this stuff was pounded into me and is still fresh. Freshish. |
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Daistallia Mey


Joined: 28 May 2008 Location: Iowa
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Daistallia Mey


Joined: 28 May 2008 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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See below. _________________ http://www.generalunion.org/ - Proud and strong labor activist!
PoliCompass:
Economic Left/Right: -1.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.82
Conworlding Links: http://gauzstien.angelfire.com/links.html
Last edited by Daistallia on Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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su_liam Për

Joined: 05 Dec 2007
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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Looks promising to me.
Since I don't have a good memory of your world's geography, it would be helpful to have a layer with the outlines of landmasses. I'm firing up Photoshop, now, to see how this fits your land.
So far so good. |
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Daistallia Mey


Joined: 28 May 2008 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| su_liam wrote: | Looks promising to me.
Since I don't have a good memory of your world's geography, it would be helpful to have a layer with the outlines of landmasses. I'm firing up Photoshop, now, to see how this fits your land.
So far so good. |
Cool. Working on a re-working of it that'll be clearer now that I've got the basics down. _________________ http://www.generalunion.org/ - Proud and strong labor activist!
PoliCompass:
Economic Left/Right: -1.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.82
Conworlding Links: http://gauzstien.angelfire.com/links.html |
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Daistallia Mey


Joined: 28 May 2008 Location: Iowa
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su_liam Për

Joined: 05 Dec 2007
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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Is there any way you could put up your previous version without the underlying surface detail. I was gonna try something(see what you thought), but I took to long with the kids etc?
I created an otherwise transparent outline of your continents(teal and khaki areas), simplified the outlines and I was about to lay the result over your pressure map.
I think the result would have more clear than the straight overlay you used. It would have been much like these.
Of course this is your map, so I don't intend to bogart it .
EDIT: That came off a little Gimmee!. You have the makings of an excellent map here. Otherwise I'd say good enough as-is, and shut up. |
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Daistallia Mey


Joined: 28 May 2008 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| su_liam wrote: | Is there any way you could put up your previous version without the underlying surface detail. I was gonna try something(see what you thought), but I took to long with the kids etc?
I created an otherwise transparent outline of your continents(teal and khaki areas), simplified the outlines and I was about to lay the result over your pressure map.
I think the result would have more clear than the straight overlay you used. It would have been much like these.
Of course this is your map, so I don't intend to bogart it .
EDIT: That came off a little Gimmee!. You have the makings of an excellent map here. Otherwise I'd say good enough as-is, and shut up. |
Doh - I just purged all the previous versions, thinking I didn't need them. (>.<) _________________ http://www.generalunion.org/ - Proud and strong labor activist!
PoliCompass:
Economic Left/Right: -1.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.82
Conworlding Links: http://gauzstien.angelfire.com/links.html |
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su_liam Për

Joined: 05 Dec 2007
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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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Oh well. Here's my attempt at a summer map. Notice my crappy attempt at a gradient.
This requires enough effort that I think I need to get to work applying this to Sadwillow. On the one hand, a lot of effort; on the other hand, really good results.
I modified Anguipes' tutorial a bit. I started with the 128-grey then, without looking at landshapes, I jotted in black over the ITCZ and polar front with a large diffuse brush in a low opacity. Then I similarly blotted in black over the STHZs and poles. I called this layer Summer and made a copy which I called Winter for later.
Next, I made the shorelines visible. I used the smear brush at 90% strength to push the low pressure associated with the ITCZ north over land areas.
Unless land areas are large(you don't really have anything like that here), most of your attention will go to water areas. I used a large diffuse brush on low opacity to build up the white areas over the northern oceanic STHZ. Mostly it will expand to the north, only a very little towards the ITCZ.
Once the summer hemisphere oceanic high pressure cells are blobbed in, I added a little bit of low pressure over the continental area.
This map doesn't have a lot going on in the southern hemisphere, so I just built up the low pressure over the midlatitudes in open-sea areas and enhanced and enlarged the antarctic high pressure cell.
Due to the absence of disruptive land masses in the southern hemisphere, this map doesn't give much of a notion of how I would deal with complex winter circulation. As a hint till I get something together: the (55º N -ish)polar front will expand over the ocean into a huge low pressure cell(almost to the tropics at the southwest corner and up to the arctic circle in the northeast), the oceanic high pressure cell associated with the STHZ will shrink to a nubbin in the southeast corner of the oceanic region(very close to shore, centered at about 25º N).
Clearly, I need to find the site where I downloaded all of my wikipedia and ESRI gradient files.
EDIT: Never destroy anything until you are completely done with your project. Burn it to CD, if you have to. IME things you delete always, always, come back to bite you on the ass. Not a criticism so much as a kindness...
EDIT2: I didn't post the freaking image. What a twit...!
Blue is low pressure, red is high pressure. The graticule is a 15º grid. If you look closely, you'll see a red color to the equator line, a gold color to the 30º N/S lines(approximating the STHZ), and a green coloration to the 60º N/S lines(a very loose approximation to the PF). I think the shore lines are fairly obvious.
EDIT... um... N: Now the winter. I did an experiment, here, and I don't think I'll repeat it. Intentionally...
EDIT. again. Reversed my color scheme description. I usually use red for low pressure, 'cause it tends to follow higher temperature(loosely), and blue for high pressure for the same reason, but I had reversed my gradient to follow the standards in the post I was working off of. |
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Daistallia Mey


Joined: 28 May 2008 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:43 am Post subject: |
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| su_liam wrote: | | EDIT: Never destroy anything until you are completely done with your project. Burn it to CD, if you have to. IME things you delete always, always, come back to bite you on the ass. Not a criticism so much as a kindness... |
I'm usually the opposite about that - holding on to everything for ever so long. (>.<)
| su_liam wrote: | EDIT2: I didn't post the freaking image. What a twit...!
Blue is low pressure, red is high pressure. The graticule is a 15º grid. If you look closely, you'll see a red color to the equator line, a gold color to the 30º N/S lines(approximating the STHZ), and a green coloration to the 60º N/S lines(a very loose approximation to the PF). I think the shore lines are fairly obvious.
EDIT... um... N: Now the winter. I did an experiment, here, and I don't think I'll repeat it. Intentionally...
EDIT. again. Reversed my color scheme description. I usually use red for low pressure, 'cause it tends to follow higher temperature(loosely), and blue for high pressure for the same reason, but I had reversed my gradient to follow the standards in the post I was working off of. |
Cool, thanks.
Not sure which I like better at the moment. I'm still messing about with the coloring you gave it. One question - I was going with roughly 12 degrees for the STCZ and about 78 for the PF, due to the 9-10 degree axial tilt while you seem to have gone with something more Earthlike. Would the STCZ and PF change for the different axial tilt and how much? _________________ http://www.generalunion.org/ - Proud and strong labor activist!
PoliCompass:
Economic Left/Right: -1.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.82
Conworlding Links: http://gauzstien.angelfire.com/links.html |
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su_liam Për

Joined: 05 Dec 2007
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Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Daistallia wrote: | | su_liam wrote: | | EDIT: Never destroy anything until you are completely done with your project. Burn it to CD, if you have to. IME things you delete always, always, come back to bite you on the ass. Not a criticism so much as a kindness... |
I'm usually the opposite about that - holding on to everything for ever so long. (>.<)
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I just splurged on a cheap-ass 1.5 TB hard drive. It's slow as molasses, but I never have to throw anything away.
I'm still working on a filing system that lets me find anything.
| Daistallia wrote: |
Cool, thanks.
Not sure which I like better at the moment. I'm still messing about with the coloring you gave it. One question - I was going with roughly 12 degrees for the STCZ and about 78 for the PF, due to the 9-10 degree axial tilt while you seem to have gone with something more Earthlike. Would the STCZ and PF change for the different axial tilt and how much? |
Yeah, I didn't catch the obliquity difference until I saw your post on conworlds. Basically with reduced axial tilt the ITCZ will hug the equator harder and things won't move around as much from season to season. The STHZ might move a little closer to the equator, and the PF might move a little closer to the equator,too. Other than the reduced seasonal meander, I don't think the basic position of the cells will change much.
Your slow axial rotation might make a small difference, but I'm effed if I know which way. Maybe I'll ask one of my old professors. They roll their eyes a lot when I ask conworlding questions, but hey. _________________ My little attempt at a blog dedicated to worldbuilding Astrographer. |
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Daistallia Mey


Joined: 28 May 2008 Location: Iowa
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Daistallia Mey


Joined: 28 May 2008 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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I've gone with a shorter day and year than the first set, and a more clearly very near to Earth set up, aside from being a cooler star and the shallower tilt. Hopefully this looks better than the first data set. (The radius was set to make the map easy to scale! )
| Quote: | Stellar Data:
Type: G5V
Mass: .93 Sol
Luminosity: .80 Sol
Radius: .96 Sol
Absolute Magnitude: 5.51 Mv
Surface Temperature: 5557 K
Peak wavelength: .51 μm
Age: 8 Gyr
Age on Main Sequence: 12.63 Gyr
Planetary Data:
Rotation period (hr): 25
Mean orbital distance: .99 AU (14,810.19x106 km)
Eccentricity: 0.01
Axial tilt: 10.0°
Year: 360.1 local days (9002.5 hours, 375.1 Earth days)
Angular Diameter of Star: .52°
Angular Diameter of Moon: .51°
Solar day: 25.07 hours
Rotation period: 25 hours
Lithosphere:
Radius: 6366.2 km
Circumference: 40,000 km
Surface Area: 509.3x106 km3
Mass: .99 Earth Masses
Density: 5,476 kg/m³
Albedo: .35
Typical surface gravity: 9.74 m/s² (.99 G)
Equatorial surface gravity: 9.73 m/s² (.99 G)
Polar surface gravity: 9.77 m/s² (.99 G)
Geosynchronous orbit: 36,864 km
Escape Velocity: 11.14 km/s
Maximum Mountain Height: 16,717 m
Horizon Distance: 3090 m
Atmospheric Data:
Atmospheric pressure: 1266.56 mbar (1.25 Earth, equivalent to -1921.8m on Earth)
Speed of sound at surface: 318.9 m/s
Scale height: 7238 m
Dry adiabatic lapse rate: 12.11°C/km
Constituents (by volume):
Nitrogen (N2): 74%
Oxygen (O2): 24%
Argon (Ar): 1%
Carbon dioxide (CO2): 0.05%
Neon (Ne): Trace %
Helium (He): Trace %
Methane (CH4): Trace %
Krypton (Kr): Trace %
Hydrogen (H2): Trace %
Nitrous oxide (N2O): Trace %
Carbon monoxide (CO): Trace %
Xenon (Xe): Trace %
Ozone (O3): Trace %
Nitrogen dioxide (NO2): Trace %
Iodine (I): Trace %
Ammonia (NH3): Trace %
Water vapor (H2O) over full atmosphere: 1%
Water vapor (H2O) at surface: 5%
Temperatures:
Temperature range of orbit -28.1 to -22.8°C
Insolation: 1142.5 W/m2 (.82 Earth)
Greenhouse effect: 41.8°C
Typical surface temperature: 12.5°C
Normal temperature range: Night Day
6.25° C 19° C
Min Max
-25° C 37.5° C
Hydrospheric Data:
Hydrosphere Coverage: 85%
Mid-ocean Tidal Height: .43 m
Cloud cover percentage: 20%
Ice cover percentage: 20%
Constituents (by volume):
(Note: this varies from location to location,
Water (H2O): 95.5%
Sodium Chloride (common salt, NaCl): 2.7% (60% of salinity)
Magnesium Chloride (MgCl2): .9% (20% of salinity)
Calcium Chloride (CaCl2): .45% (10% of salinity)
Potassium Chloride (KCl): .225% (5% of salinity)
Bicarbonate Ion (HCO3−): .135% (3% of salinity)
Lunar Data:
Rotation period (hr): 500
Mean orbital distance: .003 AU (448,793 km)
Eccentricity: 0.01
Axial tilt: 0°
Radius: 2000 km
Circumference: 12,566.37 km
Surface Area: 502.65482x106 km3
Mass: .015 Earth Masses
Density: 2,676 kg/m³
Albedo: 0
Typical surface gravity: 1.5 m/s² (.15 G)
Escape velocity: 2.45km/s
(No Atmosphere or Hydrosphere)
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_________________ http://www.generalunion.org/ - Proud and strong labor activist!
PoliCompass:
Economic Left/Right: -1.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.82
Conworlding Links: http://gauzstien.angelfire.com/links.html |
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Daistallia Mey


Joined: 28 May 2008 Location: Iowa
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su_liam Për

Joined: 05 Dec 2007
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:28 am Post subject: |
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Comparing your map to Earth.
By null at 2010-09-04
I think you may have overestimated the extent of your cold desert climates. The BWh and BSh I'm cool with, but I expect more of your BWk to go to more southerly D climates, a few areas of BSk and patches of BWk in rainshadow areas. The somewhat more southerly extent of the D climates I could lay at the feet of that lower axial tilt, although I expect the continental climates to be less extreme given the low seasonality and small size of the continent.
The continents are actually smaller than they look because of the smaller size of the planet overall. _________________ My little attempt at a blog dedicated to worldbuilding Astrographer. |
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Daistallia Mey


Joined: 28 May 2008 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 4:35 am Post subject: |
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Ooh, thanks for that. I've actually got a second version I haven't posted yet, but I hadn't thought of putting it through that program. Excellent idea.  _________________ http://www.generalunion.org/ - Proud and strong labor activist!
PoliCompass:
Economic Left/Right: -1.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.82
Conworlding Links: http://gauzstien.angelfire.com/links.html |
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